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	<title>Comments on: Drill Here, Drill Now?</title>
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	<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/</link>
	<description>where we&#039;re going, we don&#039;t need roads...</description>
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		<title>By: perro</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3479</link>
		<dc:creator>perro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3479</guid>
		<description>&quot;You probably believe in global warming too, HA. &quot;
:D
well, I suppose that in a country were roughly 50% of the people don&#039;t &quot;believe&quot; in evolution, you are aloud not to &quot;believe&quot; in global warming.
so richard, you probably also believe that planes fly because of some sort of miracle :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>You probably believe in global warming too, HA. &#8220;<br />
 <img src='http://bethesignal.org/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile-big.png' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
well, I suppose that in a country were roughly 50% of the people don&#8217;t &#8220;believe&#8221; in evolution, you are aloud not to &#8220;believe&#8221; in global warming.<br />
so richard, you probably also believe that planes fly because of some sort of miracle <img src='http://bethesignal.org/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile-big.png' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3477</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3477</guid>
		<description>Sorry sugar, I linked to the wrong page. This should help:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/aeo07/issues.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry sugar, I linked to the wrong page. This should help:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/aeo07/issues.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/aeo07/issues.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3476</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3476</guid>
		<description>jdub: &quot;Sure, and there are people who are on Planet Ubuntu who blog about all kinds of things I (and others, all in different ways) don’t care about.&quot;

That&#039;s fair enough.  Yet this line of criticism seems legitimate.  What DO you do for Gnome?  And why don&#039;t you ever post about it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jdub: &#8220;Sure, and there are people who are on Planet Ubuntu who blog about all kinds of things I (and others, all in different ways) don’t care about.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fair enough.  Yet this line of criticism seems legitimate.  What DO you do for Gnome?  And why don&#8217;t you ever post about it?</p>
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		<title>By: Sagar</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3475</link>
		<dc:creator>Sagar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3475</guid>
		<description>@Russ: I managed to find the numbers[1], and it looks like the EIA did in fact increase short-term (until 2013) price estimates by about 25%, and long term price estimates by about 10%.  

While I&#039;ve had a hard time finding good numbers for how long it takes to get a rig up and running, I haven&#039;t seen any estimates under five years (2013 is five years from now).  The incentive for monetizing fields, then, is only about 10% higher under the new estimates.

I&#039;m skeptical that would result in &quot;much more&quot; than .2mb/d being drilled, and within a &quot;much shorter&quot; time frame.  

I know nothing about shale deposits, so no comment on that.

[1] http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/aeo_2008analysispapers/woppt.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3477">Russ</a>: I managed to find the numbers[1], and it looks like the EIA did in fact increase short-term (until 2013) price estimates by about 25%, and long term price estimates by about 10%.  </p>
<p>While I&#8217;ve had a hard time finding good numbers for how long it takes to get a rig up and running, I haven&#8217;t seen any estimates under five years (2013 is five years from now).  The incentive for monetizing fields, then, is only about 10% higher under the new estimates.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m skeptical that would result in &#8220;much more&#8221; than .2mb/d being drilled, and within a &#8220;much shorter&#8221; time frame.  </p>
<p>I know nothing about shale deposits, so no comment on that.</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/aeo_2008analysispapers/woppt.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/aeo_2008analysispapers/woppt.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Walther</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3474</link>
		<dc:creator>Walther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3474</guid>
		<description>@ The people that say this is such a good graph and perro:
What do you mean FACT? Did you notice that of the 25 years plotted in this graph we only know the numbers for the first 2 or 3? The rest is all projection, not fact.
You don&#039;t know what the national energy consumption is going to do, nor what other energy sources will be used, nor what OPEC will do in the next 20 years. 80% in that graph is speculation.
The only message from this whole story is that drilling will give us about 2% of our current consumption in about 15 years. And that is not going to help.

@jdub: You can post whatever you like on your blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ The people that say this is such a good graph and perro:<br />
What do you mean FACT? Did you notice that of the 25 years plotted in this graph we only know the numbers for the first 2 or 3? The rest is all projection, not fact.<br />
You don&#8217;t know what the national energy consumption is going to do, nor what other energy sources will be used, nor what OPEC will do in the next 20 years. 80% in that graph is speculation.<br />
The only message from this whole story is that drilling will give us about 2% of our current consumption in about 15 years. And that is not going to help.</p>
<p>@jdub: You can post whatever you like on your blog.</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3473</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3473</guid>
		<description>You probably believe in global warming too, HA. 

If you can&#039;t post something about ubuntu or linux please don&#039;t post this garbage or get your blog off of planet ubuntu.

It amazes me how blind people can be about the US and how the economy works. Do you know that a year ago oil was around $50/barrel and gas at the pump was $2.22 at that time. and when it tripled at $150 it never went over $5 when theoretically it should have almost been $7. Most of what you see at the pump is related to futures and to what the imaginary price is or will be.

We haven&#039;t had a refinery built in this country in over 30 years! And by beginning to we will bring up morale and we can stop subsidizing other countries oil with tax benefits and begin to be self sufficient.

WHAT A CONCEPT!  Please take your left wing spin and regurgitate it on someone else!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You probably believe in global warming too, HA. </p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t post something about ubuntu or linux please don&#8217;t post this garbage or get your blog off of planet ubuntu.</p>
<p>It amazes me how blind people can be about the US and how the economy works. Do you know that a year ago oil was around $50/barrel and gas at the pump was $2.22 at that time. and when it tripled at $150 it never went over $5 when theoretically it should have almost been $7. Most of what you see at the pump is related to futures and to what the imaginary price is or will be.</p>
<p>We haven&#8217;t had a refinery built in this country in over 30 years! And by beginning to we will bring up morale and we can stop subsidizing other countries oil with tax benefits and begin to be self sufficient.</p>
<p>WHAT A CONCEPT!  Please take your left wing spin and regurgitate it on someone else!</p>
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		<title>By: Sagar</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3472</link>
		<dc:creator>Sagar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3472</guid>
		<description>@Russ: Where do you see the assumption that oil prices would drop? I wasn&#039;t able to find it in the linked report.  

Also, the report concludes that &quot;Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant. &quot;  That conclusion seems to make moot the question of exactly how much and when OCS wells would produce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3477">Russ</a>: Where do you see the assumption that oil prices would drop? I wasn&#8217;t able to find it in the linked report.  </p>
<p>Also, the report concludes that &#8220;Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant. &#8221;  That conclusion seems to make moot the question of exactly how much and when OCS wells would produce.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Berg</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3471</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3471</guid>
		<description>Russ beat me to the main issue with the EIA report - &quot;technically recoverable&quot; estimates based on drastically incorrect price projections are useless.  

Their access case also includes the assumption that &quot;leasing would begin no sooner than 2012&quot;, but the U.S. Minerals Management Service is planning on accelerating the time table in light of the drastic run up of oil prices.  The current request for comments doesn&#039;t include the land currently under a moratorium by congress, but should congress allow the ban to lapse (seems likely) those leases will likely also be offered earlier than the EIA projections.

Explotation is also &quot;assumed to proceed at rates similar to those seen in the early development of the Gulf region&quot; which ignores that some of the land is under existing lease and already has extensive exploration done.  Some estimates peg production within a year of rescinding the moratorium.

And finally, as the MMS notes, current estimates of total reserves are very conservative as exploration has been banned in most of the areas for 20-30 years.

Is it the end-all be-all solution?  Of course not, and nobody has said that it is.  Will it have an immediate impact on pump prices?  Debatable.  Certainly not drastic, if at all.  But how is that an excuse for dismissing long term gains (and other short term gains, such as job creation)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ beat me to the main issue with the EIA report - &#8220;technically recoverable&#8221; estimates based on drastically incorrect price projections are useless.  </p>
<p>Their access case also includes the assumption that &#8220;leasing would begin no sooner than 2012&#8221;, but the U.S. Minerals Management Service is planning on accelerating the time table in light of the drastic run up of oil prices.  The current request for comments doesn&#8217;t include the land currently under a moratorium by congress, but should congress allow the ban to lapse (seems likely) those leases will likely also be offered earlier than the EIA projections.</p>
<p>Explotation is also &#8220;assumed to proceed at rates similar to those seen in the early development of the Gulf region&#8221; which ignores that some of the land is under existing lease and already has extensive exploration done.  Some estimates peg production within a year of rescinding the moratorium.</p>
<p>And finally, as the MMS notes, current estimates of total reserves are very conservative as exploration has been banned in most of the areas for 20-30 years.</p>
<p>Is it the end-all be-all solution?  Of course not, and nobody has said that it is.  Will it have an immediate impact on pump prices?  Debatable.  Certainly not drastic, if at all.  But how is that an excuse for dismissing long term gains (and other short term gains, such as job creation)?</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3470</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3470</guid>
		<description>@perro: considering that the data in the graph occurs in the future, you have it exactly backwards - they are by definition statistical projections, not facts.

Notice that projections like this never take into account who is in office.  That&#039;s because it doesn&#039;t matter.  Expanded offshore drilling *may* represent that little yellow sliver, but all of the Obama Facebook pages in the world aren&#039;t going to put a dent into those hulking grey curves, either.

Don&#039;t turn this into a McCain vs. Obama thing.  Neither of them are big enough to make a dent in this, and you&#039;re kidding yourself if you think that a politician is going to solve the problem.  The market, combined with natural pressures will decide how the energy is produced, how it is consumed, and how it is conserved. PS - we control the market by what we do every day, not who we vote for on November 4th.  But I guess armchair Americans won&#039;t be voting on November 4th anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3462">perro</a>: considering that the data in the graph occurs in the future, you have it exactly backwards - they are by definition statistical projections, not facts.</p>
<p>Notice that projections like this never take into account who is in office.  That&#8217;s because it doesn&#8217;t matter.  Expanded offshore drilling *may* represent that little yellow sliver, but all of the Obama Facebook pages in the world aren&#8217;t going to put a dent into those hulking grey curves, either.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t turn this into a McCain vs. Obama thing.  Neither of them are big enough to make a dent in this, and you&#8217;re kidding yourself if you think that a politician is going to solve the problem.  The market, combined with natural pressures will decide how the energy is produced, how it is consumed, and how it is conserved. PS - we control the market by what we do every day, not who we vote for on November 4th.  But I guess armchair Americans won&#8217;t be voting on November 4th anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Snoeijs</title>
		<link>http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/09/18/drill-here-drill-now/#comment-3469</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Snoeijs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bethesignal.org/?p=1194#comment-3469</guid>
		<description>@david &amp; @perro : Like perro said its just the data that&#039;s provided. So its not the opinion of the U.S. ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION, nor do we know what methods are used to create the graph from the data. The data might be fact, the graph however is interpretation. 

However more to the point the last time i read about it, both candidates where looking at drilling in the U.S. for oil, so this is hardly a statement against one of the guys. 

But like other people have already said, the problem with oil is much much larger then if we there is going to be drilling in the U.S. or not, at the current rate the finding of new oil and the amount of oil they can get from those new spots does not equal to the loss in efficiency of old spots + increase in consumption in the long run. (I don&#039;t have a link for it, but there was a rather extensive amount of research published about this)

Unless we find some magic place where there is still massive amounts of easily (cheaply) available oil the price will keep rising, and like pvanhoof already said, this will quite literally force us to start using alternative means. Even if we do find this place (russia&#039;s bet is apparently on the north pole) its a temporary solution, because of the simple reason that oil is a finite resource.

Now having said that, i would also like to comment on the people complaining about political posts on planets and such. If you are highly offended by political messages then you are S.O.L., its that season again so to no surprise its getting discussed everywhere. Now i can already tell you that complaining about it will simply fail, because nobody really cares. A much saner solution is to use one of the many greasemonkey scripts out there to strip away blogs you don&#039;t like from planets. Its client side filtering so you have total control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@david &amp; @perro : Like perro said its just the data that&#8217;s provided. So its not the opinion of the U.S. ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION, nor do we know what methods are used to create the graph from the data. The data might be fact, the graph however is interpretation. </p>
<p>However more to the point the last time i read about it, both candidates where looking at drilling in the U.S. for oil, so this is hardly a statement against one of the guys. </p>
<p>But like other people have already said, the problem with oil is much much larger then if we there is going to be drilling in the U.S. or not, at the current rate the finding of new oil and the amount of oil they can get from those new spots does not equal to the loss in efficiency of old spots + increase in consumption in the long run. (I don&#8217;t have a link for it, but there was a rather extensive amount of research published about this)</p>
<p>Unless we find some magic place where there is still massive amounts of easily (cheaply) available oil the price will keep rising, and like pvanhoof already said, this will quite literally force us to start using alternative means. Even if we do find this place (russia&#8217;s bet is apparently on the north pole) its a temporary solution, because of the simple reason that oil is a finite resource.</p>
<p>Now having said that, i would also like to comment on the people complaining about political posts on planets and such. If you are highly offended by political messages then you are S.O.L., its that season again so to no surprise its getting discussed everywhere. Now i can already tell you that complaining about it will simply fail, because nobody really cares. A much saner solution is to use one of the many greasemonkey scripts out there to strip away blogs you don&#8217;t like from planets. Its client side filtering so you have total control.</p>
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